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Patriotism, Pie and the World Cup.

Main Entry: pa·tri·ot·ism
Pronunciation: \ˈpā-trē-ə-ˌti-zəm, chiefly British ˈpa-\
Function: noun
Date: circa 1726

: love for or devotion to one's country

(via Merriam-Webster online)

With the World Cup kicking off in just a little over three weeks, the concept of patriotism has been weighing on my mind. Along with apple pie, baseball, and Euro-snobbery.

And as flags start to fly and anthems are sung, as crowds gather elbow to elbow in pubs sporting their nations' colors, a chill runs down my spine. Because I am Benedict Arnold, and my countrymen might like nothing more than to measure me for a noose.

Star-divide

I wish I understood patriotism. I wish I could comprehend the feelings that cause someone to stand up and say, "Yes, I will give my life for my country." I wish I could feel kinship with my compatriots as we all paint our faces with stars and stripes. Heck, I even wish I liked apple pie.

Before you jump down my throat and leave a comment along the lines of, "If you hate America, why don't you just leave?", please understand--I don't hate the United States. I feel utterly fortunate to have been born here. But at the same time, I somehow don't possess the gene that connects and grounds me to spacious skies and amber waves of grain.

And without this innate sense of patriotism, I am unable to don a USMNT jersey and cheer on Donovan, Dempsey, and others as they try to battle their way into World Cup glory. Instead, on June 12th, I will be wearing a jersey emblazoned with three lions and graced with a numeral 8. And when I open my mouth and my American accent falls out, I will be met with accusations of snobbery, treachery, and unfaithfulness.

Please understand--I am not doing this because I believe in the unerring abilities of the England squad. If I wanted to hitch my wagon to a star, I'd be showing up in a red kit with Xavi on the back. It's also not because I believe that American soccer is woefully inadequate. I think that Donovan's time with Everton and Dempsey's displays at Fulham proved that the Americans can shine at high levels. I firmly believe that a strong showing at the World Cup will help advance the sport in the United States.

I would love nothing more than to be one of hundreds in a pub on June 12th who are singing, chanting, and singing their team to victory. I covet the goosebumps produced through that feeling of unity. But I just can't fake it. When I fell in love with football, I fell in love with the English footballers, complete with their quirks, foibles and inadequacies. I tried my hardest to break away from the relationship. I focused on USMNT news, found blogs to read, watched highlights of the squad. But I felt like a fake, a phony. I just couldn't form an attachment. The attraction simply isn't there.

Call me a traitor if you must. But if patriotism is as American as apple pie, I'm afraid I just don't see the allure.

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Patriotism is certainly a sticky wicket, but I know for sure that I don't tend to equate my own personal view of it with having much of a connection with sports.

I think it’s pretty clearly different in other parts of the world, especially as it relates to soccer. I’ll also admit to rooting the US to victory in the World Baseball Classic for what I would imagine are similar reasons.

I have no qualms with saying that I will be rooting for England with greater fervor than the US when the World Cup comes around. I want the US to do well, but that has less to do with patriotism and more to do with a desire to see soccer become more prominent in the US.

by Aaron Campeau on May 17, 2010 7:06 PM BST reply actions  

Can't blame you

I will definitely be rooting for the U.S. at the World Cup, but don’t see any problem with Americans who don’t. The team, if representative of anything, is about the sport, not the country. If you fell in love with the sport through the prism of another country, I can hardly judge you for not rooting for the stars and stripes. The only thing that would ring hallow is if you were to switch allegiances, which I’m sure you won’t do. Is it really that different than rooting for a nonlocal professional team? I don’t think so. Wear your colors and be proud.

Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together

by Jeremiah Oshan on May 17, 2010 7:22 PM BST reply actions   1 recs

Just don't be...

One of those people who wears a Canadian flag on your backpack when you go to Europe. Now that is poseurish.

Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together

by Jeremiah Oshan on May 17, 2010 7:22 PM BST up reply actions  

I'll root for the U.S. over any other team next month, but it's more of an underdog thing than patriotism.

I don’t really care whether the U.S. wins the gold medal for basketball or baseball or most other sports. But it’s a rare competition in which Americans are big underdogs from the get-go, so I enjoy that feeling every four years. There’s so much upside and very little downside, since expectations are never all that high. You’re not depressed if your team doesn’t make it out of the group stage.

Losing sleep and dragging ass at work for a few weeks was a small price to pay for the excitement of watching the U.S. team make its improbable run in 2002. There’s nothing better than playing with house money.

by Teej on May 17, 2010 7:24 PM BST reply actions  

I find myself very much in the same boat

I was happy to see the U.S. get humbled in that basketball tourney in … 2002? … and never really care how we do in the WBC. Although, I do like to see the U.S. atop the medal count in the Olympics for some reason.

Honestly, when it comes to soccer, I think the reason I root for the U.S. is I didn’t have a good enough reason to root for anyone else. It’s definitely not some misplaced form of patriotism, though.

Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together

by Jeremiah Oshan on May 17, 2010 7:52 PM BST up reply actions  

This is pretty much how I feel.

I generally don’t give a rats ass about how the US does in global competitions and in most cases I openly root against them. But the USMNT gives me a rare chance to follow them without any guilt. Add in the fact that come WC time the other countries that I tend to root for are either irreverently terrible (Canada) or almost too good that it takes a lot of the excitement out of the tournament (Germany), and the US squad gives me a chance to really enjoy the ups and down of the World Cup.

I find it odd that somebody doesn’t support their home country when they are the clear underdog and in a sense almost bandwagony but no more than 3 months ago I was up in Vancouver celebrating the Canadian gold medal in Hockey like it was my own.

I guess rooting for a national squad is a lot like picking a professional team: there is no set way to find one, its just about finding one that fits the best.

by Robert3TimesTheLegalLimit on May 17, 2010 9:56 PM BST up reply actions  

I have to wonder now...

Do you understand the purpose of the World Cup? That it’s to put aside club loyalties…or League loyalties in your case…and root for your country? You seem to be unable to separate the two.

I like Milner, Heskey and Warnock (hmmm…maybe not the last two) as much as the next guy…but they aren’t Villans when they put on the England shirt on June 12th…they play for England.

Whether I like the English league, and alot of English players, has no bearing on who I root for.

I also have to wonder if you will speak with an “American Accent” when you root for England…or if you’re one of those Americans who uses words like “rubbish”, “bollocks”, and “wanker” when watching soccer.

I feel genuinely sorry for you, because you are going to be missing out on what is, to me, the most quintessential joys of the World Cup…rooting for your country. This tournament wouldn’t be what it is today if everyone behaved like you. That’s not meant to be mean…it’s just the truth.

There’s no way I would root against my country in a sport…no matter how much I like the players on the other team. Thankfully, there are alot of players on England I don’t like!

by The Gentleman Masher on May 17, 2010 8:09 PM BST reply actions  

Rooting for the USMNT doesn't bring Kirsten joy.

I’m pretty sure that’s the entire point of this post.

by Aaron Campeau on May 17, 2010 8:21 PM BST up reply actions  

I understand that...

…but, as she said – she focused on USMNT news, blogs, and highlights in order to correct this. I don’t know how that would ever allow you to be a fan of anyone.

I will admit, the US not having many meaningful matches…or matches where they aren’t overwhelming favorites over Concacaf minnows…makes it tough to get all juiced up about them all the time. That said – giving only a half-hearted effort to try isn’t sufficient enough excuse to go glory hunting with England.

by The Gentleman Masher on May 18, 2010 5:43 PM BST up reply actions  

Glory hunting? Seriously?

People that assign negative motivations to decisions they disagree with are a massive pet peeve of mine.

by Aaron Campeau on May 18, 2010 6:24 PM BST up reply actions  

I don't consider it a negative motivation...

It’s just one which I don’t participate…it’s a natural inclination, IMO, for people to want to associated with something they think has a reasonable chance of delivering for them.

And, to Kirsten’s comment…I absolutely think the US can, and probably will, get farther than the US…unless by some twist of fate, they have to play Germany in the 2nd Round.

The US, meanwhile, could just as easily draw England, as they could lose to Algeria and Slovenia. ’06, and even ’02, have proven that.

by The Gentleman Masher on May 18, 2010 7:38 PM BST up reply actions  

Hahahahahahaha

Glory hunting? England isn’t going to get any further than the US side.

by Kirsten Schlewitz on May 18, 2010 7:24 PM BST up reply actions  

Do I understand the World Cup?

As far as I am concerned, it is a tournament put on every four years to showcase what are hopefully the best national sides in soccer.
But what do you do if you’re not one of those 32 nations? Not watch the cup? Not from what I’ve seen. While yes, the WC does give many people the chance to join together under one flag to celebrate a sport, there will always be those who don’t belong. It’s not about putting on airs or thinking that other nations are better than the US. It is simply about having a strange love for the English side.

by Kirsten Schlewitz on May 17, 2010 10:17 PM BST up reply actions  

Do you still watch?

Obviously, you watch…might you adopt a team, or have a team you would rather see win? Absolutely.

As an Atlanta Falcons fan, I’ve spent the majority of my life (with the exception of 1998 and 2004), watching the NFL playoffs without the luxury of my team really mattering any later than the Wild Card Round. I still watch, though, because I enjoy the league and sport.

I’d still watch the World Cup without the US being involved…because the event interests me. It’s would just be the same as the Euro Cup…but that doesn’t mean I pick a team to live or die with…I might have teams I prefer to see win, or not win, but that’s as far as it goes. I can’t imagine feeling pride in another country’s team, since it’s not my country.

If/when England advances farther than the US, I will prefer to see them win…because I am more familiar with their players than any of the other countries. I’m not going to weep tears of joy if they do, though…and I find it odd that any non-English person would.

by The Gentleman Masher on May 18, 2010 5:35 PM BST up reply actions  

I also have to wonder if you will speak with an "American Accent" when you root for England…or if you’re one of those Americans who uses words like "rubbish", "bollocks", and "wanker" when watching soccer.

Ugh that is the worse for me. I play in a couple adult rec leagues and there was a guy who used to talk like that but with a southern accent. He would also throw a " bloody " in there i.e. " Get the bloody ball mate ". I always put a little extra umph into my tackles whenever he had the ball. Just say f**k and damn live every other American.

by ccrun1800 on May 17, 2010 11:33 PM BST up reply actions  

And there's another issue.

I’ve been saying bloody since I was ten years old. Are you telling me ten year olds are pretentious? No, I just watched British comedy. Sometimes people just pick up on things. Don’t assume the worst.

by Kirsten Schlewitz on May 17, 2010 11:48 PM BST up reply actions  

Hey maybe your right

but having visited England multiple times and hearing them say the word properly just makes it sound horrible when this guy murdered it every time.

by ccrun1800 on May 18, 2010 1:06 AM BST up reply actions  

Makes two of us

You get watching enough football or talking with enough people from the UK and you pick some of it up.

"I say he does have to shoot me now! So shoot me now!" --- Daffy Duck

by George Templeton on May 18, 2010 6:43 AM BST up reply actions  

My thoughts

I have only been involved in following soccer full-time for about two-three years now. Always played the game but never followed it hardcore. I was first drawn to the game by following teams in England, and the EPL is what I follow the most. I would put Aston Villa right up there with all of my American sports loyalties, and I am a very hardcore fan in everything that I follow.

However, I was born here in the United States and it is very easy for me to push aside my love for the England game and root for the USMNT. It just came natural to me. Never once would I have even contemplated rooting for another team – that is just wrong to me. Like the poster above, I have no problems pushing aside my love for the Villans on the England team in order to root for the US. I am in no way an outwardly patriotic person, but I have no problems showing and parading around my support for the USMNT.

Don’t mistake this for me bashing your reasoning – you feel how you feel. However, I do feel a little awkward/weird when I see Americans rooting for other countries more so than their own – probably because I don’t truly understand it.

by R-F on May 17, 2010 8:25 PM BST reply actions  

Another thing I think people miss when being critical of this attitude

is that the World Cup is a much different event in the US than it is in the rest of the world. Soccer is something like the fifth most popular sport in the US. Our highest level professional league gets very little exposure outside of Fox Soccer Channel (which is generally an opt-in channel that people not already interested in soccer don’t subscribe to) and one match a week on ESPN2. USMNT friendlies and non-World Cup matches are equally difficult to come by. ESPN is doing a good job of pushing the World Cup, but outside of them the rest of the mainstream sports media seem totally oblivious to it.

That’s obviously quite different than the rest of the world. The World Cup just isn’t a big deal here, and while that bums me out it’s reality. I understand that maybe that would change if the US play well, but I am skeptical. If I felt like the entire nation was united as one, and that the way our national team performed in the World Cup had a great deal of impact on national pride, etc, perhaps I’d feel differently. But 75% of the country could not possibly care less, and many of them are likely annoyed that the World Cup will be given so much exposure on ESPN.

Aside from the Olympics, international sports competitions aren’t really a big deal here. I doubt they ever will be. We care far, far more about our professional teams.

I can’t speak for Kirsten here, but as much as I love the World Cup as an event I am largely fairly passive with regards to my rooting interests. It’s an incredible and entertaining event and I cannot wait for it to begin, but as far as outcomes I don’t have a great deal of emotion invested. Which is why it’s difficult for me to understand why who someone else supports is such a big deal to other people.

I understand why an English person rooting for the USMNT team would be weird, but I don’t understand why an American rooting for England is weird. We haven’t been conditioned to care about such things or see them as matters of national pride. So we find our own path.

by Aaron Campeau on May 17, 2010 8:42 PM BST reply actions   2 recs

Just a little anecdote

Awhile back, I remember someone talking about how they root for the U.S., but it would be kinda weird to see us win the World Cup. Their point was that in other countries, it’s like a national day of celebration that would morph into the country’s biggest weeks or months long party. Here, it would be front page news for a day, then would recede into the background rather quickly. Point being, it’s hard to say the U.S. “deserves” a World Cup (whatever that means).

I’ll definitely be rooting for the U.S., but I’d be lying if I said I didn’t feel a tinge of guilt if we won it (heck, I felt that way whenever we beat Mexico). Maybe I’m a bad sports fan. But it’s hard for me to judge anyone else on their rooting interests when I know I have my own conflicts.

Because if it's not Love | Then it's the bomb ... | That will bring us together

by Jeremiah Oshan on May 17, 2010 9:33 PM BST reply actions  

Nothing worse than enforced patriotism

If you’re not feeling it for the USMNT then who can argue? Not that I really understand the England love, but why anyone should be offended is beyond me.

by Matthew Conroy on May 17, 2010 11:10 PM BST reply actions  

They’ll beat the United States. And I somewhat share your own mentality when it comes to the dilemma of who to root for in the World Cup. Sure, I love the United States, born and raised here. But we can root for whoever we damn well please. Personally, I don’t let patriotism become involved in my choices for who to root for in the World Cup.

Nor have I ever done the same when rooting for teams in Olympic competition. I rooted for the U.S. in the Olympic hockey tournament because I love the U.S. team in hockey. I didn’t root for an American in every single Olympic event because… I liked other competitors more.

To me, there is a disparity in fans when it comes to these international competitions. A lot of fans put aside their pleasure to root for the English players, but I can’t do that. I find that a conflict arises in my head, and I’m confuses. It’s exactly the same confusion I feel with the Chicago Blackhawks right now. I want to like them, and I live in Chicago… but I’ve been a lifelong Quebec Nordiques/Colorado Avalanche fan. It doesn’t feel right rooting for Chicago, and I can’t help it.

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on May 19, 2010 7:45 PM BST up reply actions  

I can’t believe you just bagged on Wesley Sneijder. I rescind my support. LOL

Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

by Leland Roling on May 19, 2010 8:08 PM BST up reply actions  

Before I make even more enemies...

All I am trying to do is get someone to tell me why he isn’t boring!

by Kirsten Schlewitz on May 19, 2010 8:48 PM BST up reply actions  

I won't bag you for it

I root against the USA team in Olympic basketball because I despise Mike Krzyzewski. I will root for the USA to beat England June 12 and then root for England to go on to win the World Cup (because that is the league I watch and love and because I know the USA sadly won’t win it, even though the USSF targeted this year as the year the USA would win the World Cup).

"I say he does have to shoot me now! So shoot me now!" --- Daffy Duck

by George Templeton on May 18, 2010 6:45 AM BST reply actions  

George as a Terps fan I hate Coach K as much as the next guy

 but the way I see it Coach K really isn’t doing that much anyway. Also if I had to pick a second team it would be the dutch for me.

by ccrun1800 on May 18, 2010 10:35 PM BST up reply actions  

Fair enough but I everytime they show him on the bench

its like waving the red cape in front of a bull!

"I say he does have to shoot me now! So shoot me now!" --- Daffy Duck

by George Templeton on May 20, 2010 3:29 AM BST up reply actions  

2008?

Wow…just read the origins of this blog over at WordPress. You’ve never even watched your own country compete in the World Cup, have you? You aren’t basing this decision on anything remotely experiential – but entirely on how you think you might feel.

Why not let it play out before making that choice?

Heck – since they missed Euro 2008, you’ve never even watched England compete in a major competition…but you’ve apparently decided your passion for them is too strong to deny because a grand total of 1 Villa player might see the field for the entire tournament. You’ll buy their jersey and wear it. Don’t know if you’ve noticed, but half of Villa’s typical starting XI isn’t even English – again, you seem unable to separate Club/League and Country.

I feel even more sorry for you now for passing up this chance…at least if you’d been a fan of English soccer for a few decades, I could cut you a little slack…but to make this ridiculous decision 2 years into your soccer fandom just makes no sense.

This is about as logical as deciding you don’t like pizza, even though you’ve never had it…but have read about it and watched people eat it on TV….and, besides, you’re convinced that lasagna tastes a whole lot better anyway.

by The Gentleman Masher on May 18, 2010 6:12 PM BST reply actions  

She has been an Aston Villa fan since 2008.

I for a bit less than that.

Both of us have been soccer fans for much longer, as was mentioned in the same post to which you seem to be alluding.

by Aaron Campeau on May 18, 2010 6:25 PM BST up reply actions  

Dude, stop assigning me character traits based upon the little you know about me.

Would you like me to assign you negative traits based upon the fact that I despise Atlanta? No. So stop with the assumptions.

I have been a soccer fan since I was six years old. In all that time, I have never supported the US in a major competition. I simply don’t feel that undenying loyalty to this country, which is what this post was meant to be about. And again, I flat out say that I wish I could get behind the USMNT. But something is holding me back.

by Kirsten Schlewitz on May 18, 2010 7:27 PM BST up reply actions  

Well, I love Atlanta...

…and wonder why anyone would hate it. So you would probalby assign the negative character trait to me that I’m a moron for feeling that way. It’s what we do.

by The Gentleman Masher on May 18, 2010 7:41 PM BST reply actions  

Consider this your public warning.

If you do not knock of the random inflammatory crap that you are spewing here, and putting words in my mouth that I have never found there, you will be banned.

Keep it civil and keep the arguments in context.

by Kirsten Schlewitz on May 18, 2010 7:46 PM BST up reply actions  

I hate Atlanta but I know plenty of people that love it that I don't consider morons.

Perhaps it’s something you do, but clearly it is not something everyone does.

by Aaron Campeau on May 18, 2010 7:58 PM BST up reply actions  

Let me get this straight...

…you write a blog post that is designed to incite debate, and is clearly an emotional subject, and I am being threatened with a ban?

You called yourself Benedict Arnold and welcomed people to a)Measuse you for a noose and b) Call you a traitor. You welcomed people to challenge you on this, did you not?

Should I have just done those things instead of stating my opinions? Would that’ve been easier?

by The Gentleman Masher on May 18, 2010 9:56 PM BST reply actions  

The issue isn't dissent or debate, the issue is that you're doing so in a way that isn't constructive.

You’re putting words in people’s mouths and creating a strawman, which isn’t conducive to real dialog.

by Aaron Campeau on May 18, 2010 9:58 PM BST up reply actions  

What I said is don't put words in my mouth.

I welcome people that wish to debate. But do it in a way that actually responds to what I said rather than what you are making up

And for goodness sake use the reply button.

by Kirsten Schlewitz on May 18, 2010 10:22 PM BST up reply actions  

I've never pretended to know anything definitive about either of you.

I haven’t made anything up…I have based my replies completely on words that you have written both in this post, and in your initial post over on WordPress:

http://7500toholte.wordpress.com/2010/02/04/7500km-to-holte-end/

Yes, I have drawn my own conclusions in a few instances, and I have inserted hypotheticals as well. Is that not allowed?

It’s a little surprising that someone who claimed to “know nothing about football” before adopting Villa, to now say they have been watching soccer since they were 6.

Does this mean that…in your words again…you “fell in love with football” in just the last 2 years, then? If it was because of Villa, was it not only English players, but also an American, Irish, Spaniard, Bulgarian, Dane, Norwegian, etc.?

This is why I think you are rooting for England because you follow their league…not because you “fell in love” with English players like John Terry, Frank Lampard, Rio Ferdinand, etc. You most likely hate those guys when they play Villa. I know I do.

by The Gentleman Masher on May 18, 2010 10:46 PM BST up reply actions  

When you don't follow a team closely, it's difficult to learn a lot about the game.

I think that in the context of that piece it’s pretty clear that “know nothing” should be taken to mean “in comparison to now,” but if it’s not clear then let me clarify; that’s what we meant. (And that particular piece was written cooperatively, hence the “We.”)

I’ve been a fan of the game since the 1994 World Cup, but it’s only been the last few that I have followed the sport at a club level from more than a distance. And really, if not sor some pretty random coincidences that led me to being more interested in the Premier League (and quickly by extension the rest of Europe) I probably would have stayed that way, watching whatever matches were on ESPN or at the George and Dragon when I went by for a beer.

And this is the kind of thing I am taking offense to; there’s a lot of information you’re just kind of assuming, and none of it makes Kirsten look anything but bad. THe problem is, what you’re assuming isn’t true. And when you say things about people that aren’t true and those things make them look bad, it’s fairly natural for some offense to be taken.

We welcome debate. I cannot imagine Kirsten would have posted this were that not the case. But we ask that people debate fairly, and you haven’t done that. I trust that you are being honest when you say that offense was not your intent, but I for one am something of a stickler for reasoned and fair arguments. And the thing that frustrates me is that there are plenty of those arguments on the other side of this issue that can be made without fabrications and ad hominems.

by Aaron Campeau on May 19, 2010 1:26 AM BST up reply actions  

And for the record...

If you feel personally attacked by what I said, I am sorry. That wasn’t my intention.

If, however, you are just threatening to ban me because you don’t like the way I’ve presented my argument, then you you need to consider not controlling the blogging rights for a popular sports team on a popular sports blogging network.

You are going to have people far more uncouth than me show up on here.

by The Gentleman Masher on May 18, 2010 10:56 PM BST up reply actions  

what I said is that your Atlanta argument is unconstructive

I agree you have points about me previously writing that I hadn’t been keeping up with soccer, but it was due to not having a strong rooting interest. I have one now. but you are very wrong about me not loving Lampard, considering I will be wearing his jersey. I love them all except perhaps Ferdinand.

by Kirsten Schlewitz on May 19, 2010 12:26 AM BST via mobile up reply actions  

Not to seem like I am piling on just trying to understand

 What connection do you feel you have with England I take it a country you have visited a couple times at best over the country you were raised in?

by ccrun1800 on May 18, 2010 10:30 PM BST reply actions  

I've lived there.

I’ve never felt at home here in this country. I’ve felt at home in other countries.

There’s really no argument of “you were raised here” that’s going to get me. What I would love is to be a part of the national fervor; to join in and be one of the group. I think that would be an amazing feeling.

But I don’t see how I can do that other than saying “patriotism, whoo-hooo!” I just don’t care about the USMNT the same way.

by Kirsten Schlewitz on May 18, 2010 10:41 PM BST up reply actions  

Well having lived there does give you a viable connection.

That means you have friends there and maybe even some family. I think that is more so how your argument should be based and not patriotism because honestly would you sign up to defend Her Majesty’s crown. This is more about who you identify with and not so much which country you feel an allegiance to.

by ccrun1800 on May 18, 2010 11:04 PM BST up reply actions  

Damn you, ccrun!

You could’ve posted that yesterday and saved me alot of writing!! :)

by The Gentleman Masher on May 18, 2010 11:07 PM BST up reply actions  

Well this picked up pace since I last posted.

I hate Atlanta too btw

by BJohnston on May 19, 2010 12:31 AM BST reply actions  

Ouch!

I guess I should’ve hidden my Georgia roots on here! All the ATL haters!!!

by The Gentleman Masher on May 19, 2010 2:24 PM BST up reply actions  

Giuseppe De Rossi Thinks You're Misguided

I am new to this blog and don’t know much about you, but your reference to “patriotism” is incredibly condescending and, quite frankly, misguided. Patriotism now is a term liberals love to associate with rednecks and bible-beating conservatives. Red necks and bible-beating conservatives love to use it as a faux badge of honor, claiming anyone not flying the flag in their front yard and 100% beghind our military action, is not a “patriot”. I’m patriotic, but I fit in to none of these categories. I am proud of my country for the life it has afforded me and I support at team full of guys who, at least in part, play to represent that same appreciation I have (though it may be to varying degrees).

It’s very shiek to be Euro (and to scoff at patriotism), and I enjoy many things the contient across the pond has to offer that are much more sophisiticated and culturally enriched…but this is your freakin’ country. I will concede that I don’t know how long you lived in England, but you feel more connected the people there? Americans are your fellow countrymen. Giuseppe De Rossi, I get. You, I do not.

I thought this type of ludicrous thinking was reserved for Man U, Chelsea, Dallas Cowboy and New York Yankee fans who aren’t from the afore mentioned cities. Kinda disappoints me to know you support my club.

by AstonMartin on May 19, 2010 8:48 PM BST reply actions  

Rec'd

Different opinions can be so frustrating, right?

"You suck, but at least you know you suck. That's what I like about you." -Brett Hull

by hullnoates on May 20, 2010 11:47 PM BST up reply actions  

Kind of disappoints me to know that you have read this thread and apparently these comments and you don't get me at all.

For the hundredth time, I say right in the article that I wish I could be one of the people who are banding together behind the US. But it’s that that makes me feel a fake—not cheering for England.

I don’t understand why people want me to pretend to be a USMNT supporter.

by Kirsten Schlewitz on May 19, 2010 11:45 PM BST up reply actions  

This is a phenomenal post

I’ll be sending it to my friends who question why I, too, like the English side in international football. They were the first team I liked, and that’s how it is.

I find it really interesting that the same logic doesn’t apply at club and national levels. If you were first an Aston Fan, then it’s TREACHERY to become a Man City fan when you move there later in life. (Or in baseball, I don’t want to become a Nats fan even though I live in DC. I want to love my Mariners [no matter how hard they make it])

But in national teams, the rules don’t seem to apply. Kristen loves the English side, and that was the first side she loved. So why would we encourage her to switch to the USMNT? That seems like it’s breaking one of the basic tenants that most people hold so dear about being a fan. Why should forced patriotism supersede the basic principles of sports fandom? You like who you like, and you stick with it.

So thanks again, Kristen. You’ve given me something I can point to when others think I’m crazy for liking England.

by rlintott on May 20, 2010 4:01 AM BST reply actions  

Fair points...

But, I think alot of people just feel like it is different when it comes to National Teams. You can’t really choose what country you’re from. I think it’s part of the charm of the World Cup.

After following this post for a few days, though, I have to laugh at the irony of this all. The majority of the people having this argument, on either side, are people who CHOSE to support Villa. That includes myself…and here I am getting all worked up about someone choosing to support England.

While I do feel it is different with National Teams…I am kind of throwing stones from a glass house when it comes to random fandom!

For the record, though – every other team I support rabidly has to do either with where I am from, or where I went to school. There, I feel better…

by The Gentleman Masher on May 20, 2010 3:37 PM BST up reply actions  

Why shouldn't anyone be able to root for whoever they want?

Root for who you like. Who cares?

Like the author of the original post, I did not inherit the patriotism gene. At all. That said, I will be rooting for the US in the WC as always. I am proud of the strides soccer has made in this country, and I know that a strong showing in the WC would do a lot for the game in America, which I think is good. And as always, I will have other teams I root for to a lesser extent when the US are eventually eliminated.

I differ from the author in a major way, however. I hate the English national team. I love the EPL and think it is the greatest league in the world. In fact, my favorite club team plays in England. But man do I hate the English national team!

So, Kristen, while I think everyone should feel free to cheer for whatever country they want at the World Cup, I respectfully question the judgment with which you exercise that freedom. :)

"You suck, but at least you know you suck. That's what I like about you." -Brett Hull

by hullnoates on May 20, 2010 11:45 PM BST reply actions  

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We discuss English football from an American perspective. Sometimes we call it soccer. Sometimes we call it football. Whichever you call it, we welcome discussions,we appreciate arguments, and we value insight. Above all, though, we're Villa til we die.
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