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The Damned Villa: A Roundtable Discussion on Martin O'Neill's Departure and the Coming Apocalypse

Manchester United manager Sir Alex Ferguson mourns the tragic loss of another British manager.  (Photo by Ronald Martinez/Getty Images)

Describe, in one (family-friendly) word your current mental state.
Kirsten: Frazzled
Aaron:  Terrified
Gareth: Fragile

How do you feel about Martin O'Neill leaving Aston Villa?
K: Blindsided. I thought it was a joke, at first, as we hadn't heard any rumors about his leaving since what, March? While I believe this is an excellent squad that will perform well for another manager, it's hard to trust that we can find someone new, quickly, and in a fashion that allows us to buy before the transfer window closes.
A: I'm pretty torn up over it, and it's not just O'Neill leaving. I adore MON, but his leaving in and of itself isn't the end of the world. There are good managers out there that I think could be convinced to come to Villa and might be a bit more forward-thinking tactically, which would be nice. The things that worry me are the timing and the reasons behind his departure. Whatever made him leave now, this close to the season after all of the speculation after last season and his insistence that he was staying put, must have been pretty major. Since we don't know what the reasons are all we can do is speculate, and most of the explanations that seem plausible make me nervous for the future of the club.
G: I wish it never happened. O'Neill is more responsible for our recent success than Lerner or anyone on the roster, and it's going to be really hard to find someone who can capably replace him, especially so close to the start of the season.

Let's play the blame game: who (or what) do you think is at fault for all of this?
K: While some have blamed the never-ending James Milner transfer saga, I'm worried that it might be something to do with Ashley Young. If Young has been, or is about to be, sold, this may have triggered MON's decision to finally throw up his hands and leave. Or perhaps a fan spit in his face. Who knows.
A: I'd think that no matter what the tipping point was that this is related in some way to the transfer budget. I don't know enough about the club's finances to assign blame in that case, but I'd think that a least a fair portion has to go to MON. He's spent a not insignificant amount of money on players that never play, and that's got to be eating into the wage budget. I think the inclination will be to blame Lerner for being cheap, but the club is losing money and the Board has been very up-front about the fact that they were willing to operate in the red while they were becoming established butat some point would see to it that the club was self-supporting. This might be the beginning of that and MON may very well be not interested in continuing in such a fashion.
G: I think Martin O'Neill got frustrated with Lerner over transfer money. Manchester City was never going to pay Milner's valuation, which was probably O'Neill's responsibility, and I think Lerner just wanted to take what Citeh was offering. Or, worse, Spurs made a bid for Ashley Young, and Lerner wanted to take it.

What's next for Martin O'Neill?
K: England? No, seriously, what is open for him in the Prem right now? Capello is making crap out of crap. Might as well try something new but not too new with England.
A: I've got to think it's either back to Celtic or a stint as the England manager, which in either case means he's going to be out of action for at least a bit.
G: I don't see him getting another job in the Premiership for a while. There aren't a lot of English clubs bigger than Aston Villa, and the ones that are bigger than Villa can probably do better than MON. Maybe he'll get an international job or go back to Celtic.

In a perfect world, who would be Aston Villa's manager for this season?
K: I have no idea. To be perfectly honest, the more I watched football outside the EPL, the more I became disillusioned with a few aspects of O'Neill's style. He's quite attached to a 4-4-2, although pre-season play showed he might be willing to give other formations a shot-at least, modified 4-4-2s. I would love someone who would look outside the league for transfer possibilities, and I don't think MON was ready to do that.
A: In a perfect world? Jose Mourinho. In a world that is perfect in every way except for the fact that only the possible can happen? Martin Jol would be kind of neat.
G: Ottmar Hitzfeld. He was among the best managers at the World Cup, and he's been succesful pretty much everywhere. Him or Guus Hiddink, because showing up and immediately succeeding is the sort of thing he does really well.

Who do you actually think will be Aston Villa's manager for this season?
K: Let's get Zola. Randy Lerner shouldn't be able to screw him the way Gold and Sullivan did, right? (Ed: To be fair, Gold and Sullivan's entire fortunes are based on screwing.)
A: Kevin McDonald.
G: Ugh. Depending on whether or not Lerner wants to go British again, Gary Megson or Sven-Goran Eriksson.

Obviously, this is going to affect our transfer activity. What do you see happening between now and the close of the transfer window?
K: I see our players being sold and not bringing in anyone before the close of the window, unless we get a new manager like, tomorrow. I may be feeling overly pessimistic right now, but players don't want to join a team that's manager-less. Look at what happened to Liverpool between the time that we knew Benitez was leaving and Hodgson came in. Players wanted out and no one wanted to come in. Now Villa has the same issue, except league play starts in five days.
A: James Milner being sold for money we don't see and Stephen Ireland. Other than that? I don't think anything else will happen until January, aside from perhaps some lesser players going out.
G: Milner's as good as gone. I think Ashley Young will stay, but Stilyan Petrov will leave for Liverpool. We'll get Stephen Ireland from Manchester City, and that might be it.

Where will James Milner be playing football this season?
K: Manchester City
A: Manchester City
G: He'll be the best paid waterboy in Manchester. Citeh, that is.

Where will Ashley Young be playing football this season?
K: Tottenham Hotspur
A: Aston Villa
G: He'll play for us at least until the winter transfer window. Depending on how things are looking at that point, he might leave (probably for Spurs), thus triggering Villa's rebuilding process and with it, my first ulcer.

How does this affect our season? How does it change (or does it change) how you expect this season to go?
K: If Milner and Young both leave, that's a huge, gaping hole in midfield, as well as the loss of two of our best players. We needed to shore up our defense, but that seems impossible without a manager. Should our players stay, we can likely get through the first couple months of play without imploding-provided, of course, that our players stay healthy. Kevin MacDonald at least knows what's going on around the club, and the on-field play shouldn't be an issue. It's just the timing of the transfers that will be the biggest problem.
A: I don't necessarily think MON not being around will hurt us all that much, but if my fears are correct and this is the squad we see, this could be a rough go-round.
G: I thought we would probably win either the FA Cup or the League Cup this season. Now, I think we end up midtable. Like I said earlier, it depends on our early season form and who comes in as manager. This season could either be an usually rough speedbump or the start of a major rebuilding project. 

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I'm surprised to hear Celtic as MON's fallback.

I mean, they could definitely use him, but who’s to say that he’d be backed as well as he was backed at Villa. Celtic, unfortunately, haven’t been the most ambitious club of late, and I think they truly do want to give Lennon a shot (although I could also see him stepping down to being an assistant or youth manager again).

um, please visit my soccer (football) blog. it's interesting, I promise. por favor? (filbertway.com)
Sunshine will come to Nats Park, I promise. (visit por favor? my website)

by ajk9hy on Aug 9, 2010 8:45 PM BST reply actions  

I just don't get the rebuilding talk at all.

You’re supposed to be bad before you rebuild. AV wasn’t bad last season.

by Robert Lintott on Aug 9, 2010 8:46 PM BST reply actions  

If Milner and Ash leave

And we bring in no one, that appears to look much like we are in for a mid-table year/rebuilding process.

Now this may be the fan in me speaking, but IMO, rebuilding for The Villa isn’t like rebuilding for other (worse) clubs. Hopefully we will never be bad, but it certainly won’t be like the finishes some may have grown accustomed to the last few years.

by R-F on Aug 9, 2010 8:53 PM BST up reply actions  

I wonder if MON

had struck a deal to bring Ireland here in the Milner deal and Lerner just wanted the cash instead.

As for new managers, I am hoping for a young manager who could turn out to be brilliant. Sean O’Driscoll, Derek McGuiness, Slavan Bilic or Nigel Adkins?

"I say he does have to shoot me now! So shoot me now!" --- Daffy Duck

by George Templeton on Aug 9, 2010 9:00 PM BST reply actions  

I don't think Lerner would do that, not Adkins or O'Driscoll. Darren Ferguson maybe, but no obviously because he just accepted a new job.

Maybe a name like Pulis, but I see an accomplished manager replacing MON.

um, please visit my soccer (football) blog. it's interesting, I promise. por favor? (filbertway.com)
Sunshine will come to Nats Park, I promise. (visit por favor? my website)

by ajk9hy on Aug 9, 2010 9:06 PM BST up reply actions  

Tony Pulis?

Dear God the fans wouldn’t like that and many of the players would want to leave.

"I say he does have to shoot me now! So shoot me now!" --- Daffy Duck

by George Templeton on Aug 9, 2010 9:11 PM BST up reply actions  

I don't like Pulis either.

I was just thinking of a name and pedigree, not the style of football. You know, the Martinezes, Zolas-type.

um, please visit my soccer (football) blog. it's interesting, I promise. por favor? (filbertway.com)
Sunshine will come to Nats Park, I promise. (visit por favor? my website)

by ajk9hy on Aug 9, 2010 9:19 PM BST up reply actions  

I want Martin O'Neill to do for the Republic of Ireland what he did for Villa

but the Irish FA is too stupid to offer him the contract and carte blanche he would want and deserve.

by pdb on Aug 9, 2010 10:38 PM BST reply actions  

Listening to BBC's Monday Night Club podcast

And the Midlands football correspondent for the BBC had heard that Randy Lerner wanted to sell Brad Friedel to Fulham (!) was the straw that broke the camel’s back. Fulham apparently want Friedel so they can sell Mark Schwarzer to Arsenal.
Another host on the show was saying that what could’ve caused this was Aston Villa taking Stephen Ireland in the James Milner deal when Martin O’Neill just wanted cash instead!

I am more confused than even before.

"I say he does have to shoot me now! So shoot me now!" --- Daffy Duck

by George Templeton on Aug 10, 2010 2:25 AM BST reply actions  

If you want to listen to this

And it includes an interview with former captain Martin Laursen.

"I say he does have to shoot me now! So shoot me now!" --- Daffy Duck

by George Templeton on Aug 10, 2010 2:39 AM BST up reply actions  

Why Aren't you More Pissed With Martin O'Neil?

Why aren’t you Villa fans more upset with Martin O’Neil? He just completely screwed your team on the eve of the start of the season! Who does that! When is the last time a coach ever quit a few days before the start of the season like this in any sport? I can’t think of one. What a jerk.

Win or lose, we will always be here for you.

by johnjahafanclub on Aug 10, 2010 2:40 AM BST reply actions  

Because, try as we might, we have no idea what prompted this.

And perhaps we have a bit of faith in our club.
Obviously the timing could have been better but I think right now most of us are too confused to feel a lot of anger.

by Kirsten Schlewitz on Aug 10, 2010 3:25 AM BST up reply actions  

Not a Villa supporter, but this situation doesn't deserve any sort of spite, yet.

Plus this isn’t Toon. Villa’s actually a good and stable football club.

um, please visit my soccer (football) blog. it's interesting, I promise. por favor? (filbertway.com)
Sunshine will come to Nats Park, I promise. (visit por favor? my website)

by ajk9hy on Aug 10, 2010 3:31 AM BST up reply actions  

You knew Good Old Stuart James would chime in

And he rehashes what happened in Moscow and says that was the beginning of the end.

"I say he does have to shoot me now! So shoot me now!" --- Daffy Duck

by George Templeton on Aug 10, 2010 5:46 AM BST reply actions  

Do people really think that Lerner is a cheapskate?

Is this a sudden feeling, if it exists, or has it been a feeling for a while? As a new Villan I may have a lot of questions until I can hold my own so thanks for bearing with me.

My brother actually played for a Lerner owned team, the Cleveland Browns, and he met the man a couple of times. Nothing indicated he’s a cheap owner at all but I was just curious to see how the masses felt about his tenure in Birmingham.

Thanks!

by Andrew Cieslak on Aug 10, 2010 3:37 PM BST reply actions  

There seem to be some that think this now due to the lack of transfer spending.

I’d be curious to know how those folks feel about MON spending the amount of money on players that never played over the past few years.

by Aaron Campeau on Aug 10, 2010 3:43 PM BST up reply actions  

That's starting to be what I think it's over.

The club tried to get rid of Luke Young but couldn’t because no one else would meet his wages. Perhaps that was the beginning of the slide.

Lerner might not be cheap but he seems to be a shrewd businessman. He doesn’t like to see his money sitting on a bench piercing holes through everyone with electric blue eyes.

by Kirsten Schlewitz on Aug 10, 2010 3:50 PM BST up reply actions  

Which I don't fault him for.

And this is pure speculation, but I think that he might have been slightly more willing to free up some money if Shorey, Young, Sidwell, Salifou, etc etc etc had ever played.

by Aaron Campeau on Aug 10, 2010 3:56 PM BST up reply actions  

Also

I think Lerner was expecting some of these fringe players to be gone by this point in the transfer market, thereby reducing the wage bill and allowing MON to bring in some more players with the Milner funds.

Those guys like Luke Young are not gone and the wage bill is still as high as ever. I think that is why Lerner is reigning in the spending and may be unwilling to bring in new players – and like you said, I don’t think anyone can blame him for that at all.

by R-F on Aug 10, 2010 7:08 PM BST up reply actions  

I have calmed down alot

Now if Ashley leaves then I will be back in a tizzy but honestly I think MON is somewhat of a big baby. Remember him having such a fit over a couple fans booing or how about his constant remarks over the fact that the Chairman and Chief Exec are in control of all finances. I think MON didn’t like the fact that RL was calling out his lack of financial acumen.

I think this is a step forward for the club as long as Milner is the only one to leave. I believe RL is willing to support the new manager it will just be more of a Spurs model where Levy handles the finances and ’ary redknapp does the coaching.

by ccrun1800 on Aug 10, 2010 4:28 PM BST reply actions  

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